turbo124.com

Hi guys,

If you use a 131 rack, the following parts (axial joints and tie rod ends work really well in the Spider. Tie rod ends - # QR2026S (117mm long) or QR1837S (127mm long) both seem to work ok. The axial joints #QR2025S. The boot kit # QG1055. All Quinton Hazel parts. Karcraft in Sydney will get these parts for you.

To mount the rack on a standard Spider cross member I used a 131 cross member and cut the mounting brackets off and re fitted to the Spider cross member. I have a 'rack' cross member from a late model Spider which was used to correctly position the rack mounting brackets and supports . The rest is still work in progress, but will be able to provide 'photos shortly if anyone is interested.

Oh yeah, post photo's of your progress. Would also be nice to see some of the Spider x-member that is designed for a rack.

Patrick

Here are some photos of one with a 131 rack attached (RHD) which I had lying around for many years and have just sold to a mate in Perth because I'll never get to do the project that I had in mind for it.

Im reviving this thread again as i have a couple of questions that have not been answered:

1) How far behind the crossmember does the rack need to be? (131 Rack, using 131 brackets cut from 131 crossmember)
looking at Tambarans pix it seems that the rack sits way back further than it would if i straight welded the 131 brackets onto the 124 crossmember. Also seems like the factory R&P crossmember also has a couple of bulges where the brackets are welded on also?

2) In an AC with one piece steering shaft, are there any advantages or disadvantages associated with making the steering shaft meet the rack? Ive only seen split shaft conversions ( BC, CC) so not sure if same issues apply. I dont want to drill my firewall, so looking for the neatest solution here.

3) Can any of the 131 steering shaft components be used in helping my shaft meet the rack? What components have others used?

4) If anyone has clearer pix of the linkage between the shaft and rack, can they please post. Im interested to see how they've connected them and the angles involved.

Cheers

Ace

Hi ace,

I have answered your pm about the position of the rack from the xmember (I have an origional '85 xmember so these dimensions are within a couple of mm's). The rack is 42mm from the xmember and 32mm above the bottom of the xmember. all dimensions are from the middle of the rack as the back lip on the bottom of the xmember is curved. Still hoping to post some photos.

oops, my last post has an error. The dimensions are from the centre of the lip on the curved rear bottom side of the xmember. (not the rack as I stated).

well, ive got an x 1/9 rack just laying there. ill give take a few measurments and see what it looks like as far as working on my spider.

I might have missed this but what are the universals off?
(I am fitting a 131 rack using the standard column location)

A big improvement to reducing the amount of effort required to turn the steering wheel on a 124 is to get rid of the fluid damper and go with a ball bearing unit. The one I installed was made in Turkey. I put one on my Spider and it felt like I had installed power steering.

I put the old damper in a vice and could barely turn it with a pair of vice grips. I later learned that the sweepers get gummed up and cause resistance. I don't know what the purpose of the fluid damper was to begin with. The ball bearing unit works just fine if not better.

By the way, I might be missing something but I can't tell any difference between the amount of effort required to steer my Spider verses my Yugo. I haven't checked but does a steering rack reduce the amount of turns required?

now thats a good looking setup thanks

That idler from turkey is for a LHD car. I dont know of any available for RHD. Maybe LADA?
Regardless, the dampened idlers serve a purpose and thats why fiat used them. Granted there is no official Fiat rebuild prceedure for them. Kept them away from water and maybe every 5 yrs take it out, drain, flush and refill with hydraulic fluid. My AC still has its original idler, going on 42 yrs old. Steering is not heavy at all, and wonderfully dampened from road shocks. I did however make a brace to support it on the chassis after seeing a few that decided to part company from the rails due to cracking. Cracking is almost always the result of a seized idler, accident damage or over tightening on the rail so be aware!

RHD Idler's are available on Ebay from Cyprus supplier.

Maybe your stock 124 unit needed new rubber bushings , but can you clarify this point please
Just changing the idler-arm with a ball bearing one made such a significant difference ??
I have just installed a smaller steering wheel in my 124 and when making manoeuvres on the spot
takes a lot of effort than it used to ,so if a ball bearing units reduce the effort.. is very useful option.
The ball bearings units we are discussing come from Lada Nivas which was a later option provided for Ladas, but i didn;t know they give such an improvement just by themselves !!!

Hi Tiaf
If your car has a bushed idler and not the hydraulic type then provided your bushes are in good condition and they havent collapsed or rust has gotten to the shaft, then you wont get lighter steering with a ball bearing type.
Take yours out and move the arm to see if its stiff or not.
Even jack up the front end and move the steering wheel, you should notice.
Smaller wheel obviously = greater effort. You shouldnt turn the wheel when the car is stationary anyway...at least let the car roll a little.

I was told the sweepers get dirty inside the damper which create resistance. Maybe that's why I noticed a such decreased effort in steering afterwards.

By the way, I seen something I had never heard of before the other day. My friend has a 1968 124 Spider and said the housing on his idler broke.

I thought I had saved the one I pulled from my 80 Spider but couldn't find it but luckily had one I pulled from an 81 parts car.

I'd never heard of the housings breaking until it happened to him.

Tiaf124 has a bushed type idler as per the 124 sedan, not the hydro type. The bushed idlers are pretty reliable provided the bushes dont deteriorate, and the shaft doesnt rust.
Ive never seen a bushed idler housing fail, but ive seen many hydro idlers with broken housings. Imagine what happens at speed when you loose steering...not pretty.
The reason the hydro idlers fail is as ive said before, they can go dry from leakage, get water inside and rust, or otherwise gum up and seize making steering very heavy and putting strain on the mounting tabs every time you turn the wheel.
Another reason ive seen them fail is due to distortion from over tightening on the chassis member. The material doesnt like to be stressed and wont flex much, instead it will crack rather than mould itself to the distorted chassis member.
A hard hit on the curb will also fracture the mounting tabs of the idler.
Fiat infact redesigned it from AC to CC. AC had no reinforced ribs on the body of the idler whereas the CC had a beefier ribbed version. Im not sure when the change happened, so cant say about the BC.
Fiat have never officially published any literature on refurbishing the Hydro Idlers, they are meant to be disposable units. There are a few mods that can be done to keep them going though.
Ive made a brace to go over mine so even if it fails the brace still holds it in place.

is a 131 racing rack good for this conversion?

As far as I'm aware there's no difference between a rack from a Racing and one from a standard 131, although there is a difference between standard series 1 and series 2 racks, (or is that 2 and 3?).